Removing x86 support in 5.7

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martin
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Removing x86 support in 5.7

Post by martin » 2019-08-02 06:41

I'm leaning towards removing x86 support in 5.7 and just supporting x64. The main reason is 'development experience'. Maintaining two separate versions increases build times, makes code more complex, makes it take longer to set up a dev environment and so on.

Any thoughts on that?
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Re: Removing x86 support in 5.7

Post by mattg » 2019-08-02 07:22

just do it.

Most programs these days for windows don't come in 32 bit flavours anymore, only 64 bit.
Just 'cause I link to a page and say little else doesn't mean I am not being nice.
https://www.hmailserver.com/documentation

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Re: Removing x86 support in 5.7

Post by jimimaseye » 2019-08-02 09:02

mattg wrote:
2019-08-02 07:22
just do it.

Most programs these days for windows don't come in 32 bit flavours anymore, only 64 bit.
+1

(I'm aware that some database installs can come as 32bit - as long as there is still compatibility with them.... )
5.7 on test.
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Re: Removing x86 support in 5.7

Post by 1ucasPitts » 2019-08-02 14:56

+1

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Re: Removing x86 support in 5.7

Post by BeSmart » 2019-08-08 18:01

Maybe Windows XP/Vista/7/8 support should be removed as well.

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Re: Removing x86 support in 5.7

Post by martin » 2019-08-08 19:01

I have removed x86 support now.

Removing Windows 7/8 seems a bit premature. They are still supported by Microsoft (unless you're talking about specific service pack configurations).
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Re: Removing x86 support in 5.7

Post by BeSmart » 2019-08-13 18:19

Martin,

Support for Windows 7 ends in 6 months (January 14, 2020 - https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/help/4057281), support for Windows 8 ended 3 years ago (January 16, 2016 - https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/hel ... s-products).

I guess moving to Windows 8.1+ for the 5.7 branch and leaving the 5.6 branch as is until EOL should not cause any issues. Doing so allows you to upgrade the 5.7 branch to the latest technology stacks.

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Re: Removing x86 support in 5.7

Post by prisma » 2019-09-25 13:44

Let me annotate that the support for server 2008 (that last 32-bit server) ends also at 14/01/2020 (and that's for professional environments more important than desktop OSs).
So, it's absolutely OK to end x86 support in 5.7.

BUT some things:
  • There is no .net 3.5/2.0 core package to install in Server 2016 and 2019 (GUI and Core). So hMailserver setup fails.
    It's a "feature on demand" you need to install from DVD/ISO with DISM or Powershell. The setup should handle this in any way, at least with an information that or how to do it.
  • Knowing this it's expectable that Microsoft will remove 3.5/2.0 core package completely in one of the next versions.
    So, letting x86 die for better support and easier and more modern development is one thing. But replacing old .net components with new ones should be the same step.
  • We (the professional users) vitally need an upgrade process from 5.6.X 32-bit to 5.7 64-bit.
    Fresh installs are no option for production systems which have (!) to be updated on the fly with minimal downtime because of security reasons or known issues.

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Re: Removing x86 support in 5.7

Post by petesky » 2019-12-16 13:03

Please do not remove X86 XP support as i still use W2K3 x86 (and maybe others). Thank you.

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Re: Removing x86 support in 5.7

Post by Dravion » 2019-12-16 13:13

petesky wrote:
2019-12-16 13:03
Please do not remove X86 XP support as i still use W2K3 x86 (and maybe others). Thank you.
If you really need it, you can compile 32-Bit x86 XP SP3 builds yourself.

But keep in Mind, XP and Win2k Servers are long out of Support by Microsoft itself.
Even Windows 7 is out of Support and grace period is over end of January 2020.

You should update to a recent Windows 10 version (1909 or higher) or Windows Server 2019
which has Production support til 2029.

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Re: Removing x86 support in 5.7

Post by SorenR » 2019-12-16 15:03

petesky wrote:
2019-12-16 13:03
Please do not remove X86 XP support as i still use W2K3 x86 (and maybe others). Thank you.
5.6.8 is still available. 5.7 is pre-alpha testing so not expected to be stable anyways.
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Re: Removing x86 support in 5.7

Post by Dravion » 2019-12-16 15:17

SorenR wrote:
2019-12-16 15:03
petesky wrote:
2019-12-16 13:03
Please do not remove X86 XP support as i still use W2K3 x86 (and maybe others). Thank you.
5.6.8 is still available. 5.7 is pre-alpha testing so not expected to be stable anyways.
5.7 Pre-Alpha is not the same Codebase than Codestate: https://github.com/Dravion/hmailserver/ ... 766f4adc81

There are lot of changes, especially regarding OpenSSL 1.1.1 (TLSv1.3) Support.
It's true, Martin did not provide a new Installer which covers the latest, official changes, but i did.

This Installer includes the latest changes, in only compiled it and packaged it
https://www.hmailserver.com/forum/viewt ... 10&t=34621

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Re: Removing x86 support in 5.7

Post by SorenR » 2019-12-17 01:18

Dravion wrote:
2019-12-16 15:17
SorenR wrote:
2019-12-16 15:03
petesky wrote:
2019-12-16 13:03
Please do not remove X86 XP support as i still use W2K3 x86 (and maybe others). Thank you.
5.6.8 is still available. 5.7 is pre-alpha testing so not expected to be stable anyways.
5.7 Pre-Alpha is not the same Codebase than Codestate: https://github.com/Dravion/hmailserver/ ... 766f4adc81

There are lot of changes, especially regarding OpenSSL 1.1.1 (TLSv1.3) Support.
It's true, Martin did not provide a new Installer which covers the latest, official changes, but i did.

This Installer includes the latest changes, in only compiled it and packaged it
https://www.hmailserver.com/forum/viewt ... 10&t=34621
5.6.8 is updated to use OpenSSL 1.1.1d ... Is Boost 1.71.00 official?
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Re: Removing x86 support in 5.7

Post by petesky » 2019-12-17 11:02

Dravion wrote:
2019-12-16 13:13
But keep in Mind, XP and Win2k Servers are long out of Support by Microsoft itself.
Even Windows 7 is out of Support and grace period is over end of January 2020.
You should update to a recent Windows 10 version (1909 or higher) or Windows Server 2019
which has Production support til 2029.
Out of support yes but stable anyway (runs for "years" without any reboot until needed important patches). I'm currently running HMAIL 5.6.8 which runs fine and i was very happy to get TLS 1.2 so i hope for few more years as long as my hardware will work. Thank you and happy new year.

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Re: Removing x86 support in 5.7

Post by Dravion » 2019-12-17 12:33

Staying secure is always a run between a Rabbit and a hedgehog.

If you fall short with applying patches, you risking your complete hMailServer.
Its more likely to get hit by a hack if you run on a unsupported OS than not because
the old security holes will never get fixed.

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Re: Removing x86 support in 5.7

Post by SorenR » 2019-12-17 13:54

Dravion wrote:
2019-12-17 12:33
Staying secure is always a run between a Rabbit and a hedgehog.

If you fall short with applying patches, you risking your complete hMailServer.
Its more likely to get hit by a hack if you run on a unsupported OS than not because
the old security holes will never get fixed.
You are assuming the server is also used by a carbon based humanoid as a workstation ... A properly locked down server is never at risk if left alone - UNLESS there is a security hole in hMailServer OR script code is executed with elevated priviledges outside the sandbox.

You did not confirm if Boost 1.71.00 is official ...
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Re: Removing x86 support in 5.7

Post by Dravion » 2019-12-17 16:27

No. BOOST 1.72 is official

Version 1.72.0
December 11th, 2019 18:06 GMT

https://www.boost.org/users/history/version_1_72_0.html

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Re: Removing x86 support in 5.7

Post by SorenR » 2019-12-17 18:06

Dravion wrote:
2019-12-17 16:27
No. BOOST 1.72 is official

Version 1.72.0
December 11th, 2019 18:06 GMT

https://www.boost.org/users/history/version_1_72_0.html
YOU listed Boost 1.71.0 for hMailServer 5.7. I just wanted to know if that version is OFFICIAL HMAILSERVER.

PS. I can bloody well read a webpage like anyone else so I already knew 1.72.0 to be the latest version.
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Re: Removing x86 support in 5.7

Post by Dravion » 2019-12-17 18:49

SorenR wrote:
2019-12-17 18:06
Dravion wrote:
2019-12-17 16:27
No. BOOST 1.72 is official

Version 1.72.0
December 11th, 2019 18:06 GMT

https://www.boost.org/users/history/version_1_72_0.html
YOU listed Boost 1.71.0 for hMailServer 5.7. I just wanted to know if that version is OFFICIAL HMAILSERVER.

PS. I can bloody well read a webpage like anyone else so I already knew 1.72.0 to be the latest version.
I dont know, maybe you ask Martin if you are eager to have silly bs talk

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Re: Removing x86 support in 5.7

Post by scratchbuild1 » 2020-01-08 16:50

I know I'm late to the party but I'll put in a vote for not getting rid of Win7/2008r2 support just yet. I'm fine with no 32-bit binaries, but would appreciate if the win7/8 support could stay for a bit longer.

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Re: Removing x86 support in 5.7

Post by Paulo Meireles » 2020-03-02 00:13

I fully understand the need to eventually drop x86 support - and older Windows versions along with it.
That will, however, leave in the cold users that are running precisely these older setups.
I'm running hmailserver for many years in a WinXP VM behind a firewall (only hmailserver is exposed).
It's still from the time when hmailserver included MySQL - which is what is running still.

As there is no upgrade path from x86 Windows to x64 Windows, a migration will be needed.
An easy migration procedure (between different machines) would be extremely useful.
Is there such a migration procedure I could use to migrate to a new server with x64 Windows?
Without it, just discontinuing x86 and older Windows versions will be a nightmare for us... :(

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Re: Removing x86 support in 5.7

Post by mattg » 2020-03-02 01:23

Paulo Meireles wrote:
2020-03-02 00:13
An easy migration procedure (between different machines) would be extremely useful.
You mean something like

-Update old machine to latest 5.6.x
-Backup hamailserver selecting all options including compresion
-move backup to new server
-Install same version of hmailserver on new machine
-restore backup to new machine
-test, test, test
- modify router forwards and DNS entries as needed

You don't even need the same database, but of course you can use MySQL (or MariaDB) on the new server, or PostgreSQL, or MS SQL Server
Just 'cause I link to a page and say little else doesn't mean I am not being nice.
https://www.hmailserver.com/documentation

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Re: Removing x86 support in 5.7

Post by Paulo Meireles » 2020-03-02 02:00

Ideally there would be some scripts to migrate messages, databases and settings to a new machine.
That would help most of the "old guard" migrate off old x86 Windows into new x64 Windows.
However, a description of the procedure will also do.

For me, the tricky part is "-Backup hamailserver selecting all options including compresion"
As far as I remember, backup is not supported when exceeding 1GB - and my server has around 40GB of email.
Is there any other method to backup/restore larger servers?

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Re: Removing x86 support in 5.7

Post by SorenR » 2020-03-02 02:40

Paulo Meireles wrote:
2020-03-02 02:00
Ideally there would be some scripts to migrate messages, databases and settings to a new machine.
That would help most of the "old guard" migrate off old x86 Windows into new x64 Windows.
However, a description of the procedure will also do.

For me, the tricky part is "-Backup hamailserver selecting all options including compresion"
As far as I remember, backup is not supported when exceeding 1GB - and my server has around 40GB of email.
Is there any other method to backup/restore larger servers?
5.6.8 runs fine on my Windows 2003 R2 and I presume it will run on XP also. Upgraded MySQL from 5.1.73 to 5.5.62 and hMailServer 5.4.2 to 5.6.8 in one go without backup :oops:

Well, I had made a dump of MySQL with all my databases and DB users/passwords plus a copy of the DATA directory so I had something just in case ... 8)

I did actually have a spare computer with Windows Server 2012 R2 Eval with about a month left. For Worst Case scenario ...
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Re: Removing x86 support in 5.7

Post by Paulo Meireles » 2020-03-02 04:31

I still have the binaries for hmailserver 4.0 build 125 - I think it was how my server was created.
However, I've been updating hmailserver over the years, and I've been running 5.6.8 for a while.
Nevertheless, I'm still running MySQL 4.1.18-nt...
Just checked, and there are over 250.000 messages in the server, taking around 35GB of disk.

I can easily install hMailServer 5.6.8 on a new virtual machine with Windows Server 2019.
I can even install it in the same drive letter and path as the original server.
But what should I do then? How can I move all data from the old server?
Should I just do a backup/restore from hMailServer without the messages, to make it under 1GB?
May I then just xcopy/robocopy the messages from the original server to the target?

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Re: Removing x86 support in 5.7

Post by mattg » 2020-03-02 09:35

If you upgrade the old server to latest, i think that the backup limit has been removed
You will NEED the same version at both ends of the transfer anyway


If you migrate manually, copy the database (use a tool like PhPMyAdmin to backup), copy the data folder (to same location), copy the hmailserver.ini, eventhandlers.vbs and any other custoimisations
Just 'cause I link to a page and say little else doesn't mean I am not being nice.
https://www.hmailserver.com/documentation

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Re: Removing x86 support in 5.7

Post by Dravion » 2020-03-02 10:42

I don't know if it will help you, but i will build x86 (i686) 32-Bit versions (Windows 32-Bit) because it helps to identify some native C/C++ code errors better.
This will help hMailServer on the long run, especially if we see a CPU Register length upgrade in the future like 128-Bit CPU's or greater.

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Re: Removing x86 support in 5.7

Post by Paulo Meireles » 2020-03-02 22:04

If you upgrade the old server to latest, i think that the backup limit has been removed
That would be great! I'll try it. Thank you!
(...) i will build x86 (i686) 32-Bit versions (Windows 32-Bit) (...)
That would help me keep running on XP if I wanted to keep it - which I don't... Thanks anyway! :)

I suppose that 5.7 will do an "in-place upgrade" from 32-bit to 64-bit... Is that what's planned?

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Re: Removing x86 support in 5.7

Post by mattg » 2020-03-03 01:58

I'm running 5.7, and just did an in-place upgrade


How do I know if it is running in 64 bit mode?
I assume so because I had to change to a 64 bit version of the mysqldll to connect to my existing 64 bit MySQL database
Just 'cause I link to a page and say little else doesn't mean I am not being nice.
https://www.hmailserver.com/documentation

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Re: Removing x86 support in 5.7

Post by RChadwick » 2020-03-09 19:56

I'd like to vote for dropping 32-bit support, but please keep support for Windows 7+. I can understand XP might be getting long in the tooth, but 7 and 8.1 (If you fix the crappy GUI) work fine, and are the only alternatives to Windows 10. Maybe I'll sound like a tinfoil hat wearer, but I'll never trust Windows 10.

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