hmailServer: 64-bit Version?

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Greg_M
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hmailServer: 64-bit Version?

Post by Greg_M » 2022-08-08 22:07

Question: Is a 64-bit version of hmailServer planned?
Thank You

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Re: hmailServer: 64-bit Version?

Post by jim.bus » 2022-08-08 22:31

There are 64 bit versions I believe found on Github which is where the code for hMailServer is found. Typically versions 5.7 are 64 bit versions but my understanding is that all the 64 bit version (version 5.7) are pretty much considered all Alpha's though some of the Forum volunteers are actually running version 5.7.

Last I heard several months ago, the Developer of hMailServer has moved onto other interests such as family. There's been some talk of someone taking over the project but I haven't heard of any actual action like that being taken.

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Re: hmailServer: 64-bit Version?

Post by jim.bus » 2022-08-09 04:25

You might also check the Development & Alpha Forum Discussions topic and look for the topic 'hMailServer future' for the state of any future developments. This is where I got my information from.

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Re: hmailServer: 64-bit Version?

Post by palinka » 2022-08-09 07:52

Greg_M wrote:
2022-08-08 22:07
Question: Is a 64-bit version of hmailServer planned?
Thank You
https://build.hmailserver.com/

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Re: hmailServer: 64-bit Version?

Post by Greg_M » 2022-08-11 16:05

There's been some talk of someone taking over the project...
It might be a perfect thing for me to take over as this is right in line with the Siteware web server software https://www.siteware.org
Despite experience with .NET, I now focus on C++ only (siteware) and so this code is a perfect fit.

I'm CompCodeNet on GitHub. Perhaps, I'll start a fork. I'll have to plan it a bit as I am busy, but this is a project that I'm very interested in.

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Re: hmailServer: 64-bit Version?

Post by jimimaseye » 2022-08-11 17:17

Its a BIG project, quite a few hardliners involved, and very much a collaberation. Also, there are already 'forks' out there but they are not supported by us on the official forum - we want the official project to continue under its original name/offering/license.

The concern for me is this:
Greg_M wrote:
2022-08-11 16:05
I'll have to plan it a bit as I am busy,
Its due to being busy that the current Master-in-Chief is giving it up.
5.7 on test.
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Re: hmailServer: 64-bit Version?

Post by Greg_M » 2022-08-11 18:05

My plans would be to gradually phase out C# and make this project C++ only. Modern C++ is powerful and productive and has much better performance than .NET. This will also eliminate the .NET 2.0 (old BTW) dependency during installation. I would also plan to transition to C++20 and Visual Studio 2022.

Perhaps Mr. Knafve could contact me at GMcPherran@WebSoftHost.com to discuss a transition.

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Re: hmailServer: 64-bit Version?

Post by SorenR » 2022-08-11 21:50

Greg_M wrote:
2022-08-11 18:05
My plans would be to gradually phase out C# and make this project C++ only. Modern C++ is powerful and productive and has much better performance than .NET. This will also eliminate the .NET 2.0 (old BTW) dependency during installation. I would also plan to transition to C++20 and Visual Studio 2022.

Perhaps Mr. Knafve could contact me at GMcPherran@WebSoftHost.com to discuss a transition.
hMailServer requires .NET 4.5 as minimum. .NET 2.0 is in honor of Windows XP. You only need to change the install script to get rid of .NET 2.0.

Now that one was simple....

There is a html interface to hMailServer using the API so now we can eliminate hMailAdmin and the other tools that uses .NET...

What's next?

I would hate to see some ignorant "programmer" not being part of the community run this project to the ground.
Some of us has been here for a long time. I for one witnessed RFC850 being written when I started studying for my BSc.EE.
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Re: hmailServer: 64-bit Version?

Post by Greg_M » 2022-08-11 22:25

Hello Soren, thanks much for information.
SorenR wrote:
2022-08-11 21:50
hMailServer requires .NET 4.5 as minimum. .NET 2.0 is in honor of Windows XP. You only need to change the install script to get rid of .NET 2.0.
For starters, may I suggest set that as default to eliminate the .NET 2.0 issue?

SorenR wrote:
2022-08-11 21:50
There is an html interface to hMailServer using the API so now we can eliminate hMailAdmin and the other tools that uses .NET...
Great to know. I don't see it in documentation, but I may not know where to look. Does the community still want to keep the desktop app config tool. I like the idea of having both.

SorenR wrote:
2022-08-11 21:50
I would hate to see some ignorant "programmer" not being part of the community run this project to the ground.
Some of us has been here for a long time. I for one witnessed RFC850 being written when I started studying for my BSc.EE.
It's a good fit for me if people are interested in C++ and phasing out .NET altogether. For the Windows config tool, even that can be transitioned to C++. I have experience with Windows desktop in C++ and installation tools and those are also an interest of mine. I currently have a custom Windows App framework that I am working on for the Siteware installer and EventLog config. I would be willing to donate this to the project provided that all rights are reserved to the Mail Server project (I would also keep my original copyright, but the Mail Server project would have full perpetual copyright rights and all other rights independently.)

SorenR wrote:
2022-08-11 21:50
What's next?
Additional Suggestion: Bundle PostgreSQL and auto-config it on installation such that users have as simple an installation process as possible - the current installation is already good IMHO, but I think we could make it a one click default install including bundled database.

Additional Suggestion #2: 64-bit Only

Beyond that, my suggestion would be for Mr. Knafve to OK my involvement, and then we could discuss some of these items covered here and work out some of the higher-level plans (road map) regarding these things. I'm sure there are also details regarding features/issues that users (and developers) are interested in.

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Re: hmailServer: 64-bit Version?

Post by palinka » 2022-08-11 22:49

Greg_M wrote:
2022-08-11 22:25
Hello Soren, thanks much for information.
SorenR wrote:
2022-08-11 21:50
hMailServer requires .NET 4.5 as minimum. .NET 2.0 is in honor of Windows XP. You only need to change the install script to get rid of .NET 2.0.
For starters, may I suggest set that as default to eliminate the .NET 2.0 issue?

SorenR wrote:
2022-08-11 21:50
There is an html interface to hMailServer using the API so now we can eliminate hMailAdmin and the other tools that uses .NET...
Great to know. I don't see it in documentation, but I may not know where to look. Does the community still want to keep the desktop app config tool. I like the idea of having both.

SorenR wrote:
2022-08-11 21:50
I would hate to see some ignorant "programmer" not being part of the community run this project to the ground.
Some of us has been here for a long time. I for one witnessed RFC850 being written when I started studying for my BSc.EE.
It's a good fit for me if people are interested in C++ and phasing out .NET altogether. For the Windows config tool, even that can be transitioned to C++. I have experience with Windows desktop in C++ and installation tools and those are also an interest of mine. I currently have a custom Windows App framework that I am working on for the Siteware installer and EventLog config. I would be willing to donate this to the project provided that all rights are reserved to the Mail Server project (I would also keep my original copyright, but the Mail Server project would have full perpetual copyright rights and all other rights independently.)

SorenR wrote:
2022-08-11 21:50
What's next?
Additional Suggestion: Bundle PostgreSQL and auto-config it on installation such that users have as simple an installation process as possible - the current installation is already good IMHO, but I think we could make it a one click default install including bundled database.

Additional Suggestion #2: 64-bit Only

Beyond that, my suggestion would be for Mr. Knafve to OK my involvement, and then we could discuss some of these items covered here and work out some of the higher-level plans (road map) regarding these things. I'm sure there are also details regarding features/issues that users (and developers) are interested in.
Its open source on github. Fork it.

If you build it, they will come.

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Re: hmailServer: 64-bit Version?

Post by Greg_M » 2022-08-11 23:07

palinka wrote:
2022-08-11 22:49
Its open source on github. Fork it.
jimimaseye wrote:
2022-08-11 17:17
Also, there are already 'forks' out there but they are not supported by us on the official forum - we want the official project to continue under its original name/offering/license.

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Re: hmailServer: 64-bit Version?

Post by SorenR » 2022-08-12 01:44

I would imagine the person(s) taking over from Martin should have extensive knowledge of the inner workings of mailservers and the RFC's they build upon.

Just sayin' :wink:
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Re: hmailServer: 64-bit Version?

Post by palinka » 2022-08-12 08:06

Greg_M wrote:
2022-08-11 23:07
palinka wrote:
2022-08-11 22:49
Its open source on github. Fork it.
jimimaseye wrote:
2022-08-11 17:17
Also, there are already 'forks' out there but they are not supported by us on the official forum - we want the official project to continue under its original name/offering/license.
So let me get this straight - you think the owner/creator of this software is just going to hand over control of it to some guy on the internet that nobody in this community knows?

Believe me - if you fork it and improve it, then offer regular development, people will switch to your fork. It's literally that easy. But building trust is the hard part and your reputation score on this forum is 0 so far. That's not anything against you personally. It's just that nobody knows you or knows anything about you at all, and you haven't contributed a single line of code or script or solved anyone's configuration issues to date. You are completely unknown to us.

What you have done so far is demand that you take over the entire project. From any reasonable perspective, that is sheer lunacy. That brings your reputation score into negative territory.

Reputation unknown = 0
Lunacy = -25

Now you have to work hard just to bring your reputation back up to 0 because none of us regulars are going to forget the previously displayed lunacy.

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Re: hmailServer: 64-bit Version?

Post by Greg_M » 2022-08-12 23:31

I plan to create a new repository and the initial work planned is this:
  • Mail Server Config - Desktop App - C++ UI
  • New Installer
  • Both of the above will use Siteware C++ UI and Installer Frameworks.
  • Mail Server Supports only PostgreSQL
  • Installer Bundles PostgreSQL
  • Transition all .NET to C++. Server will have no .NET dependencies.
  • Mail Server - 64-Bit Only (no 32-bit version)
I can the keep forum here posted on progress and provide a link to the installer binary and the Mail Server source code with any modifications to it, when available. The Mail Server name is Siteware Mail. Anyone can email me at GMcPherran@WebSoftHost.com anytime.

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Re: hmailServer: 64-bit Version?

Post by jim.bus » 2022-08-13 00:34

Greg_M wrote:
2022-08-12 23:31
I plan to create a new repository and the initial work planned is this:
  • Mail Server Config - Desktop App - C++ UI
  • New Installer
  • Both of the above will use Siteware C++ UI and Installer Frameworks.
  • Mail Server Supports only PostgreSQL
  • Installer Bundles PostgreSQL
  • Transition all .NET to C++. Server will have no .NET dependencies.
  • Mail Server - 64-Bit Only (no 32-bit version)
I can the keep forum here posted on progress and provide a link to the installer binary and the Mail Server source code with any modifications to it, when available. The Mail Server name is Siteware Mail. Anyone can email me at GMcPherran@WebSoftHost.com anytime.
Note the current System Requirements for hMailServer.

https://www.hmailserver.com/documentati ... quirements

While apparently there are advantages in using Postgre in terms of features or data handling and Postgre is a currently supported databse server, I believe not many current hMailServer users use Postgre databases. When looking at Forum users, I have rarely seen references to anyone using Postgre and more frequently see users using MySQL or MSSQL and many times the built in MSSQL CE Compact version which is no longer supported by Microsoft. There also may be users using MariaDB as an alternative to MySQL as well. Other Forum volunteers may have a better sense of which Database Server is used by the hMailServer community. So, from my perspective, I would think many current users wouldn't want to convert to using Postgre. My very limited research also indicates to me that MySQL, for example, is simpler to use. Again the other Forum volunteers would be more knowledgeable about this.

Not being an expert by any means on the ramifications of copyright licensing, I might be concerned over the right of users of hMailServer using hMailServer in their installations Commercially or for Private Use. And what would be the ramifications of someone taking the hMailServer source code with a copyright that also belongs to another organization and then modifying the hMailServer code to be used for their purpose.

My concerns may mean nothing since I am not an expert in this area but this is what I first thought about when seeing what the Original Poster was planning to do.

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Re: hmailServer: 64-bit Version?

Post by Greg_M » 2022-08-13 05:14

jim.bus wrote:
2022-08-13 00:34
Someone taking the hMailServer source code with a copyright that also belongs to another organization and then modifying the hMailServer code to be used for their purpose.
The license basically states that derivative works may be created as long as the source code to any modifications is provided. However, the license has other confusing clauses that imply that the copyright can be revoked etc.

I have decided not to proceed with the plans for a new version based on hMailServer then, and I won't change or use any source code. This thread has my suggestions for hMailserver if they have any value to anyone.

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Re: hmailServer: 64-bit Version?

Post by Dravion » 2022-08-13 05:28

There are a lot technical related problems waiting for you.

It starts with the Installer which only a part of the setup process. In fact, the hMailServer.exe Windows Service has a lot of setup functions and classes triggered by the installer, the dbsetup program, the database update process etc.

Also there is no fixed sql scheme configured. You have a startup sql creation file for any supported dababase which triggers sql upgrade scripts during the setup.
If you dont update to the latest and required dbversion, hmailserver.exe wil simply log an critical error in its logs and stops working. The C++ source is about 200k lines of code.
It depends heavy on the BOOST Framework code which is used in allmost any asynch file and socket operations.
Hms also relies on Microsoft COM and ATL code. Any inter process communication between client programs and hmailserver.exe is done via MS COM/DCOM Remote procedure calls. Only the mail server protocols like smtp, pop3 and imap are not COM/DCOM depended but relying on BOOST C++ Framework functions and specific on BOOST ASIO.

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Re: hmailServer: 64-bit Version?

Post by jim.bus » 2022-08-13 07:09

Dravion wrote:
2022-08-13 05:28

If you dont update to the latest and required dbversion, hmailserver.exe wil simply log an critical error in its logs and stops working. The C++ source is about 200k lines of code.
Dravion,

The above statement is confusing to me (I'm not a C coder or any type of PC Application coder as well). I install upgraded versions of hMailServer all the time and I rarely update to the latest MySQL version. I am using MySQL 8 with hMailServer 5.6.9-B2602 but the same was true for MySQL 5.7 as well when I was using that version. I keep using the current MySQL I have installed and hMailServer.exe does not stop working even when I have to install a new database as best I recall.

So unless your statement is in reference to having to have a MySQL (in my case) at a certain version level or above, I'm not sure what you mean so I must be missing something. I don't have any current issues with hMailServer or MySQL. Just curious what your statement actually means.

Thanks.

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Re: hmailServer: 64-bit Version?

Post by RvdH » 2022-08-13 10:46

jim.bus wrote:
2022-08-13 07:09
Dravion wrote:
2022-08-13 05:28

If you dont update to the latest and required dbversion, hmailserver.exe wil simply log an critical error in its logs and stops working. The C++ source is about 200k lines of code.
Dravion,

The above statement is confusing to me (I'm not a C coder or any type of PC Application coder as well). I install upgraded versions of hMailServer all the time and I rarely update to the latest MySQL version. I am using MySQL 8 with hMailServer 5.6.9-B2602 but the same was true for MySQL 5.7 as well when I was using that version. I keep using the current MySQL I have installed and hMailServer.exe does not stop working even when I have to install a new database as best I recall.

So unless your statement is in reference to having to have a MySQL (in my case) at a certain version level or above, I'm not sure what you mean so I must be missing something. I don't have any current issues with hMailServer or MySQL. Just curious what your statement actually means.

Thanks.
Think he means latest HMS build, as you need specific dbversion (eg: sql update script) that is compatible with that version, which normally the dbupdater.exe takes care off (in my custom build you need to alter those manually)
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Re: hmailServer: 64-bit Version?

Post by Dravion » 2022-08-13 20:24

@Jim
This has nothing todo with what you are doing as a User of hMailServer. My post was strictly Developer related. It reflects a small part of what is going on during hMailServer setup - thats all

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