Corona Virus

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palinka
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Re: Corona Virus

Post by palinka » 2020-04-12 14:47

SorenR wrote:
2020-04-11 18:10
92298807_2749181168540665_4978782722961965056_n.jpg
What exactly did China win? Lost exports and manufacturing? We're bringing those jobs home. We're finally waking up to the fact those jobs never belonged in China in the first place. That's a very good thing and a win for the people of all our nations.

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Re: Corona Virus

Post by jimimaseye » 2020-04-12 15:45

Yep. Nation's awoke up to the fact that they weren't forced to buy from China and can make their own stuff. Oh wait.... no one forced them. They chose to buy from China because they are cheaper. Thats capitalism for you. (Looks like China was winning that too). Those "make [insert country here] great again" countries can always go their own way - there is nothing stopping them producing for their own consumption. But why don't they? Because it's not ecomically viable and they need to export too just like China (where China, it seems, is frowned upon for doing so). Rules for one...? Maybe they should all talk with each other and start being nicer instead of thinking of themselves as nationalists. After all what we have learned is that every country has the same needs and every country affects the rest of the globe's economy one way or another. And it took a pandemic to show that NONE of the countries are better than the others when it comes human survival. We are all the same. Suffering the same. Grieving the same. Searching for vaccines and hope all the same.

Oddly this crisis has simply shown countries how important exports and global trading is (the Russians providing medical equipment around the world). And when someone develops a vaccine or cure we will all be hoping that is shared across the globe as well.

In other news: pollution levels around the major cities are down by 40%. Woo!
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Re: Corona Virus

Post by palinka » 2020-04-12 17:27

jimimaseye wrote:
2020-04-12 15:45
Thats cRapitalism for you.
Fixed it for you.

There way you talk, you're attributing everything as though the entirety of society was a monolithic being.

Please tell me who chose to buy everything from China? Was it the guy who's job was stolen? Was it me? You? Did we get together and vote for that? Speaking of voting, did you vote to open your borders to anyone that wanted to enter? I recall voting for that exactly 0 times.

Oddly this crisis has simply shown countries how important exports and global trading is (the Russians providing medical equipment around the world).
Showed how fragile and stupid it is. One day we wake up and find out we can't protect our own people because we rely on our enemies to supply us with essential goods? That's SMAAAAARRRTTTT. What a great idea that was.

And Russia wasn't "globally trading" with anyone. Theirs was a humanitarian effort. They were smart. They closed their borders. They made their own stuff. So much that they were able to give away their excess. Undeniable win for nationalism.

And..... I'm still trying to figure out exactly what China won here. Seems like everyone is losing, but China is losing more than us, and we're losing more than Russia. I see a pattern that seems to put China at the bottom.

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Re: Corona Virus

Post by jimimaseye » 2020-04-12 18:37

:lol:
palinka wrote:
2020-04-12 17:27
Please tell me who chose to buy everything from China?
a LOT of countries that have chosen not to buy from you and for which you are blaming China. (Isn't the fact the U.S and other countries is buying from China the reason you are blaming China for lost jobs? )
Was it the guy who's job was stolen?
"Stolen"? who has stolen your jobs? Foreigners coming to live in your country? (I'm familiar with similar xenophobic phrasing during the big Brexit debate). Or are you referring to lost jobs (very different word) due to closed down manufacturing in favour of importing?
Was it me? You? Did we get together and vote for that?
I did yes - the last time I voted for a new government that believes in global trade as recently as 2019 when they proclaimed they were going to aim to trade more around the world beyond the borders of Europe.
Speaking of voting, did you vote to open your borders to anyone that wanted to enter?
I did, yes.
I recall voting for that exactly 0 times
. Did your president say he was closing the borders? We all have the chance to vote for the government they want at the time of elections and hope that who you vote for win and carry out what they promised to you. If they don't, vote for someone else next time. (I lost last time in the Brexit vote.
Thats democracy for you).
Oddly this crisis has simply shown countries how important exports and global trading is (the Russians providing medical equipment around the world).
Showed how fragile and stupid it is. One day we wake up and find out we can't protect our own people because we rely on our enemies to supply us with essential goods? That's SMAAAAARRRTTTT. What a great idea that was
.
Presumably you will lobby your local senator or vote accordingly at the next election to make your voice heard. Maybe as a country you should start manufacturing more at your home land?
And Russia wasn't "globally trading" with anyone. Theirs was a humanitarian effort. They were smart. They closed their borders. They made their own stuff. So much that they were able to give away their excess. Undeniable win for nationalism.

No no. Russia did not give away anything. They offered their excesses at a price to the Western countries who otherwise have snootily refused to trade with russia and in their hour of need have found themselves foregoing such prejudices and buying from them after all.
So why haven't you done it? Isn't Russia in the same world as the rest of us with the same needs? But then again Russia's economy is very poor by comparison. Do you really want to be the same?
And..... I'm still trying to figure out exactly what China won here. Seems like everyone is losing, but China is losing more 
How so? I don't see how they have won or lost anything here.
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Re: Corona Virus

Post by palinka » 2020-04-13 00:25

jimimaseye wrote:
2020-04-12 18:37
:lol:
At least there's one aspect of reality here. Enjoy begging for food and fuel and medical supplies. If you want, I have a pair of knee pads I bought for a tile job. I could mail them to you. I'll pick up the freight, but sorry, you'll have to pay the import duty.

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Re: Corona Virus

Post by jimimaseye » 2020-04-13 00:56

palinka wrote:
2020-04-13 00:25
At least there's one aspect of reality here. Enjoy begging for food and fuel and medical supplies. If you want, I have a pair of knee pads I bought for a tile job. I could mail them to you. I'll pick up the freight, but sorry, you'll have to pay the import duty.
Thanks. We are doing alright though. We've managed to trade with other countries so are ok for food and goods (We actually grow and produce alot too). So no begging required.

Thanks for the offer of the knees pads but if required we can import them for a lot cheaper from China - there's already a good line on imports without fuss). :mrgreen:

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Re: Corona Virus

Post by johang » 2020-04-14 23:28

SorenR wrote:
2020-04-11 18:10
92298807_2749181168540665_4978782722961965056_n.jpg
when did i learn howto cook ? nobody told me ...
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Re: Corona Virus

Post by jimimaseye » 2020-05-26 10:30

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-52799120

WHO halts trials of hydroxychloroquine over safety fears
It comes after a recent medical study suggested the drug [hydroxychloroquine ] could increase the risk of patients dying from Covid-19.

President Donald Trump has said he is taking the drug to ward off the virus.
In a world of frustration and uncertainty, when things look black, thankfully we have Trump to give us hopes and something to look forward to. 🤞
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Re: Corona Virus

Post by SorenR » 2020-05-26 11:12

jimimaseye wrote:
2020-05-26 10:30
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-52799120

WHO halts trials of hydroxychloroquine over safety fears
It comes after a recent medical study suggested the drug [hydroxychloroquine ] could increase the risk of patients dying from Covid-19.

President Donald Trump has said he is taking the drug to ward off the virus.
In a world of frustration and uncertainty, when things look black, thankfully we have Trump to give us hopes and something to look forward to. 🤞
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GZPJV4ARfhE
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Re: Corona Virus

Post by palinka » 2020-05-26 13:22

Goebbels himself would be astonished at the success of this propaganda campaign. He's probably winking with a big thumbs up from his grave.

WHO is as corrupt as they come. It's run by - literally - an African warlord.

Remind me again who it was that advised not to wear a mask during a pandemic? And even said it was more dangerous than not wearing a mask?

Now compare the interests of hydroxychloroquine (cheap, out of patent) to those of its competitors. Although Trump has nothing to do with it, his mere mentioning of hydroxychloroquine was the greatest gift ever to the propagandists because he's a polarizing figure. Instantly half the population was on the propaganda bandwagon.

There are many hundreds of billions to be rent-seeked from a patented drug to treat the China virus. Nobody makes money with hydroxychloroquine at 6 cents per tablet. Follow the money.

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Re: Corona Virus

Post by SorenR » 2020-05-26 14:04

This is one of the reasons I NEVER trust anything coming from USA. The whole country has virtually lost its marbles.

Image

http://mail.amandablain.com/bill-gates- ... explained/
.
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Re: Corona Virus

Post by jimimaseye » 2020-05-26 14:07

Yeah... but.....

.. donald trump is taking hydroxychloroquine. Yey! 🤞 🙏
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Re: Corona Virus

Post by SorenR » 2020-05-26 14:16

jimimaseye wrote:
2020-05-26 14:07
Yeah... but.....

.. donald trump is taking hydroxychloroquine. Yey! 🤞 🙏
Looking at the records of 96,000 patients across hundreds of hospitals, they found that administering the drugs actually increased the risk of dying.
https://medicalxpress.com/news/2020-05- ... death.html

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Re: Corona Virus

Post by palinka » 2020-05-26 18:24

Science is too corrupt to believe anything anymore. It's at the point where only engineering - where you have actual skin in the game - is worth anything. If a plane falls out the sky, someone is held responsible. Make up a story to trick people into handing over their money to cool the planet, no one is held responsible. The fact that Michael Mann is still working after climategate is proof of that.

The same is true for hydroxychloroquine. Time will tell. Whatever the truth behind its effectiveness, the propaganda campaign and money behind it are as real as the day is long. That - and the reproducibility crisis - are all I need to know to determine something is fishy with the narrative.

There used to be a time when leftists questioned everything. And they were right. "Follow the money" was popularized by a movie about the original "gate", the Watergate scandal, where leftist journalists justly exposed Nixon's corruption. Now all they do is parrot talking points from corrupt politicians. Where's Woodward and Bernstein when you need them?

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Re: Corona Virus

Post by jimimaseye » 2020-05-26 19:18

Yeah... but...........

.. donald trump is taking hydroxychloroquine. 🤞 🙏
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Re: Corona Virus

Post by jimimaseye » 2020-05-26 19:23

Bugger!

Apparently he has now stopped taking it. https://www.cnbc.com/2020/05/25/trump-s ... quine.html

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Re: Corona Virus

Post by mattg » 2020-05-27 01:43

And to be fair that study was about patients already in hospital suffering from this nightmare disease
It wasn't about patients taking the drug to stop getting the disease...
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Re: Corona Virus

Post by jimimaseye » 2020-05-27 10:03

mattg wrote:
2020-05-27 01:43
And to be fair that study was about patients already in hospital suffering from this nightmare disease
It wasn't about patients taking the drug to stop getting the disease...
I think the concern is that there is no evidence thats yet that it stops you getting it and plenty of evidence (unless you are a tin hat wearing conspiracy theorist) that if you do get it you raise your chances of death. With that, they have taken the precaution to stop the official trials in case of making things worse.

I guess there will still be non-WHO sponsored trials going on which will conclude it does not work which will be published in the untrusted Chinese sponsored medical journal The Lancet for us to deny the eligibility of. :lol:

Time will tell.
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Re: Corona Virus

Post by palinka » 2020-05-27 13:08

jimimaseye wrote:
2020-05-27 10:03
I think the concern is that there is no evidence thats yet that it stops you getting it
Correct. It's not a vaccine.
and plenty of evidence (unless you are a tin hat wearing conspiracy theorist) that if you do get it you raise your chances of death.
False. The Raoult trials clearly show it must be taken BEFORE the patient gets to cytokine storm. At this point, you're on the ventilator and nothing can help you. Your chance of surviving at this point is largely correlated with age.

All the anti HCQ trials began treatment either too late, or without the z-pak co-regimen, or they stacked the deck with patients with untreatable co-morbidities.
I guess there will still be non-WHO sponsored trials going on which will conclude it does not work which will be published in the untrusted Chinese sponsored medical journal The Lancet for us to deny the eligibility of. :lol:

Time will tell.
The Lancet study was a meta analysis, not a trial. They stuffed a whole lot of garbage together, such as the VA hospital trial that contained significant flaws (started treatment too late, no z-pak, lymphopenia twice as common in the HCQ groups as the non-HCQ group) and popped out a garbage result.

There are definitely 2 groups of doctors doing trials: ones following Raoult's regimen and ones using it as a last resort. It's patently obvious the last resort method doesn't work, so if you stuff a bunch of last resort trials into a meta analysis, you're getting a poor result. In a nutshell, that's what the Lancet study was. It's garbage.

Back to question everything. In the process of looking up some information about Raoult, I had to pass tons of news headlines that outright demonized him. That's certainly a coordinated propaganda campaign. With hundreds of billions at stake, do you really believe big pharma is just going to lay back and see what happens? Nobody makes money with HCQ. That's why it and it's supporters are being demonized.

As is ALWAYS the case, the more flak you take, the closer you are to the target.

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Re: Corona Virus

Post by jimimaseye » 2020-05-27 13:15

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Re: Corona Virus

Post by palinka » 2020-05-27 13:18

jimimaseye wrote:
2020-05-27 13:15
Image
Completely unexpected... :roll:

Anyway, I actually land them. This girl was one of my finest trophies, not for size but rather for strategy employed. A very satisfying win on a day when every other fish taken was micro in size. This girl is about 34"and 20 lbs.

IMG_20200527_073358_01.jpg

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Re: Corona Virus

Post by SorenR » 2020-05-27 18:21

Trump is having a cow over Twitter marking some of his Corona tweets "need fact checking" ... He claim they limit his free speach ... and yet he keep posting ...

https://thehill.com/policy/technology/4 ... fact-check

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Re: Corona Virus

Post by jimimaseye » 2020-05-27 18:41

"I'm president. Me! How dare you not let me say anything I want!"

Aw diddums.

(What a guy. A great guy. The best. No other guy had been better. A real good guy.)

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Re: Corona Virus

Post by jimimaseye » 2020-05-29 23:23

Here's one for the deniers/believers (delete accordingly depending on what you think is safest from 'them' watching you) :

IMG-20200529-WA0002.jpg
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Re: Corona Virus

Post by SorenR » 2020-06-01 20:43

Being depressed over all the stupidity in the world I shut down my computer and sat outside. Wife quickly asked "can you cut down a branch for me"... YES !! Chainsaw Massacre !!

Image
Well, I have cut down trees smaller than that branch!
.
Image
.
Image
.
Image
Time for some well deserved C2H5OH ...
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Re: Corona Virus

Post by jimimaseye » 2020-06-01 21:10

Yeah but......

... how long before garden bin collection day? :mrgreen:

(I did a lot of tree lopping, mowing and weeding in March the day before they announced they were suspending bin collections. I had a car sized pile of branch and garden stuff on my drive for 7 weeks before they restarted again. It took them 2 visits and the use of my neighbours bins to clear it and they only came every 4 weeks. Finally cleared last Thursday. :| ).

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Re: Corona Virus

Post by SorenR » 2020-06-01 21:47

jimimaseye wrote:
2020-06-01 21:10
Yeah but......

... how long before garden bin collection day? :mrgreen:

(I did a lot of tree lopping, mowing and weeding in March the day before they announced they were suspending bin collections. I had a car sized pile of branch and garden stuff on my drive for 7 weeks before they restarted again. It took them 2 visits and the use of my neighbours bins to clear it and they only came every 4 weeks. Finally cleared last Thursday. :| ).

[Entered by mobile. Excuse my spelling.]
This is farm land - The garden part is only around 6 acres ... No garden bin collection day ... :mrgreen:

We are stocking up on branches etc. and come fall we rent a large diesel powered woodchipper and run it for a couple of days.

The larger pieces gets chopped up as firewood for our fireplace.
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Re: Corona Virus

Post by palinka » 2020-06-04 18:13

Hmmmm... WHO restarting HCQ trials after "serious concerns" found in Lancet research. Sounds serious indeed. I just don't understand how a prestigious journal like the Lancet could possibly publish research with such serious ethical violations. Oh wait, in a complete coincidence, I happened to explain it above.

https://news.yahoo.com/lancet-doubts-ov ... 31223.html
Peter Horby, professor of emerging infectious diseases and global health at Oxford University said the controversy should spark "serious reflection" over the quality of the peer review process.

"Scientific publication must above all be rigorous and honest. In an emergency, these values are needed more than ever," he said.

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Re: Corona Virus

Post by SorenR » 2020-06-04 18:28

IMG-4615,medium.2x.1590304779.jpeg
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Re: Corona Virus

Post by jimimaseye » 2020-06-04 21:45

So the summary is this:

1, Studies happened
2, Americal author collates data from studies and submits a conclusion without submitting accompanying evidence for independent review or verification.
3, Journal publishes the report.
4, World reacts to the report, stop trials.
5, Journal gets lambasted for publishing the report without seeing the evidence (schoolboy error in the scientific community).
6, World resumes trials to determine effectiveness instead of trusting the study without published evidence

Conclusion: Lancet, a trusted journal in the scientific and medical world, let itself down by dropping its standards. There is no evidence that this drug DOES or DOESNT work. There is no evidence that the original author is right or WRONG in their reported conclusion.
There is only evidence that the Lancet errored in it journalistic policies. This story is about publishing wrong doings, not scientific studies (studies are just the subject of the publishing).

Where are the proven results of ANY trials saying that it is recommended to take the drug? (Maybe hidden by the larger leaflet advising to drink disinfectant as that might work too). The original American report author stands by its conclusion and aims to prove in using an independent review (....somehow!) which, if they do, changes nothing and we will end up back at point (4) with the Lancet having learned an embarrassing lesson.

This is a story of publication misjudgement, and nothing here vindicates Don The Fart and his mindless dangerous ramblings.
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Re: Corona Virus

Post by palinka » 2020-06-04 23:29

jimimaseye wrote:
2020-06-04 21:45

Where are the proven results of ANY trials saying that it is recommended to take the drug?
There are many. Every new one that comes out, the goal posts get moved in order to claim illegitimacy.

I explained everything already. I even explained the shortcomings of the Lancet study well before this news came out. No, I'm not nostradamus - just observant. No matter how much you hate trump doesn't change anything about the effectiveness, research or anything else that has to do with HCQ.

And the really funny thing is, everything would have occurred exactly as it has if trump never once mentioned HCQ. Because it has nothing to do with him at all and everything to do with rent seeking. The only difference is that trump mentioning it was a Godsend to the rent seekers because it instantly polarized the issue. Trump inadvertantly helped them immensely.

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Re: Corona Virus

Post by palinka » 2020-06-04 23:33

jimimaseye wrote:
2020-05-27 10:03
I guess there will still be non-WHO sponsored trials going on which will conclude it does not work which will be published in the untrusted Chinese sponsored medical journal The Lancet for us to deny the eligibility of. :lol:

Time will tell.
Time told.

Untrusted. You got that part right. :lol:

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Re: Corona Virus

Post by mattg » 2020-06-05 01:26

I don't know how anyone can say 'Lancet' and 'Trusted scientific Journal' in the same sentence with a straight face.

They published, then rebuked 12 years later, the Wakefield ramblings, which has been used by anti-vaxers to declare (INCORRECTLY) that 4 year old MMR immunisations caused autism.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2831678/

Wakefield (a physician who worked with intestinal bacteria), asked parents of uncontrolled kids, if the parents thought that the vaccination may have caused the bad behaviour. He had 12 (YES TWELVE) respondents, 11 of whom were boys.

Hardly scientific. Sketchy at best.

If it shows anything (AND IT DOESN'T) it shows that boys are more likely to have Autism than girls.

And the absolute kicker is that current thinking is that Autism is actually caused by a specific gut bacteria. A change of diet for these uncontrolled kids was probably their best chance.
Just 'cause I link to a page and say little else doesn't mean I am not being nice.
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Re: Corona Virus

Post by palinka » 2020-06-05 02:11

Whoa! It's even worse than I thought. THE DATA IS COMPLETELY MADE UP!!!!

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/ ... hloroquine
A search of publicly available material suggests several of Surgisphere’s employees have little or no data or scientific background. An employee listed as a science editor appears to be a science fiction author and fantasy artist. Another employee listed as a marketing executive is an adult model and events hostess.
When contacted by the Guardian, Desai said his company employed just 11 people. The employees listed on LinkedIn were recorded on the site as having joined Surgisphere only two months ago. Several did not appear to have a scientific or statistical background, but mention expertise in strategy, copywriting, leadership and acquisition.
Peter Ellis, the chief data scientist of Nous Group, an international management consultancy that does data integration projects for government departments, expressed concern that Surgisphere database was “almost certainly a scam”.

“It is not something that any hospital could realistically do,” he said. “De-identifying is not just a matter of knocking off the patients’ names, it is a big and difficult process. I doubt hospitals even have capability to do it appropriately. It is the sort of thing national statistics agencies have whole teams working on, for years.”
“There’s no evidence online of [Surgisphere] having any analytical software earlier than a year ago. It takes months to get people to even look into joining these databases, it involves network review boards, security people, and management. It just doesn’t happen with a sign-up form and a conversation.”
Well, you can read the rest if you want to laugh or cry, depending on your perspective. :lol:

I knew a guy EXACTLY like this Desai fellow. Also from the foothills of the Himalayas. That was literally his moniker: from the foothills of the Himalayas. Anyway, he started a yoga clothing company. In an extremely short period of time he convinced a couple vulture capitalists to invest millions, which he used to build stores all over the US. By all over, I don't mean like McDonald's in every town. I mean 6 or 7 stores as far flung as Hawaii, California, Florida, etc. He was based in NYC. He bit of more than he could chew, never made a penny profit and finally - after only a couple of years - the vulture capitalists wrote him off and he went bankrupt. He had something like 100 employees. Anyway, the moral of the story is there's a con artist behind every foothill of the Himalayas. :lol:

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Re: Corona Virus

Post by palinka » 2020-06-05 02:16

A biography of Desai on a brochure for an international medical conference says he has held multiple physician leadership roles in clinical practice, and that he is “a certified lean six sigma master black belt”.
BWAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!

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Re: Corona Virus

Post by palinka » 2020-06-05 02:27

mattg wrote:
2020-06-05 01:26
I don't know how anyone can say 'Lancet' and 'Trusted scientific Journal' in the same sentence with a straight face.

They published, then rebuked 12 years later, the Wakefield ramblings, which has been used by anti-vaxers to declare (INCORRECTLY) that 4 year old MMR immunisations caused autism.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2831678/

Wakefield (a physician who worked with intestinal bacteria), asked parents of uncontrolled kids, if the parents thought that the vaccination may have caused the bad behaviour. He had 12 (YES TWELVE) respondents, 11 of whom were boys.

Hardly scientific. Sketchy at best.

If it shows anything (AND IT DOESN'T) it shows that boys are more likely to have Autism than girls.

And the absolute kicker is that current thinking is that Autism is actually caused by a specific gut bacteria. A change of diet for these uncontrolled kids was probably their best chance.
I bet they claimed all the peer review legitimacy nonsense too.

Google: replication crisis

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Re: Corona Virus

Post by SorenR » 2020-06-05 10:42

NEVER lay all your eggs in one basket!

Overview of planned or ongoing studies of drugs for the treatment of COVID-19.

https://laegemiddelstyrelsen.dk/da/nyhe ... 4AC36.ashx
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Re: Corona Virus

Post by palinka » 2020-06-05 13:08

SorenR wrote:
2020-06-05 10:42
NEVER lay all your eggs in one basket!
I'm doing nothing of the kind. I'm just pointing out how the people that hate trump will believe ANYTHING that appears negative to him. And look at the lengths to which they'll go. Especially when there's hundreds of billions of dollars on the line for the winner in the corona cure contest. There's no way the rent seekers are going to allow a drug that's cheap and out of patent to win that contest.

The complete media demonization of HCQ and Raoult tells me that it's at least somewhat effective. I'm not a doctor but I know a coordinated propaganda campaign when I see one.

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Re: Corona Virus

Post by jimimaseye » 2020-06-05 19:18

Preliminary results from one study:

BBC News - Coronavirus: Malaria drug hydroxychloroquine 'does not save lives'
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-52937153

From the University of Oxford:

'Not a treatment for Covid'
More than 11,000 patients with Covid-19 are taking part, with 1,542 patients given hydroxychloroquine.

Due to mounting controversy about the drug, the UK's drugs regulator last night asked the Oxford researchers to review their data.

The results showed 25.7% of people taking hydroxychloroquine had died after 28 days. This compared with 23.5% who were given standard hospital treatment.
Doesn't look promising. But the research goes on.

(But no results as a prevention. And unlikely to ever have any).

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