Corona Virus

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Re: Corona Virus

Post by palinka » 2021-01-05 23:32

SorenR wrote:
2021-01-05 19:57
So what... Republicans lost!
No. Republicans won across the board because they rode the coattails of a very popular president who garnered more votes than any other candidate in history. Over 5 million more than Obama in 2008. Trump won in an epic landslide. All that's left to do is effectuate that epic win.

Don't worry, I'll let you when Trump is sworn in for his 2nd term. :mrgreen:

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Re: Corona Virus

Post by jimimaseye » 2021-01-06 00:21

I interesting definition of "won".
palinka wrote:
2021-01-05 23:32
SorenR wrote:
2021-01-05 19:57
So what... Republicans lost!
No. Republicans won across the board because they rode the coattails of a very popular president who garnered more votes than any other candidate in history...
.... except Joe Biden who got over 7 million more.

Just saying.
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Re: Corona Virus

Post by SorenR » 2021-01-06 00:35

jim.bus wrote:
2021-01-05 23:02
You got that right. And the Stupid Democrats in Congress will probably want to run out the clock to 1-20-21 giving this 'CRIMINAL' more opportunity to do damage to the Nation. I have badgered my Representative to support an immediate Impeachment now even if it won't result in Removal from Office but you never know and the quicker we can get rid of him the less opportunity he'll have to do any more damage.
The Constitution’s Article I, Section 3 provides for “disqualification to hold and enjoy any office of honor, trust or profit under the United States” as a penalty for an impeachable offense. And critically, while removal from office requires a two-thirds vote of the Senate, disqualification is different.
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Re: Corona Virus

Post by jim.bus » 2021-01-06 01:16

palinka wrote:
2021-01-05 23:32
SorenR wrote:
2021-01-05 19:57
So what... Republicans lost!
No. Republicans won across the board because they rode the coattails of a very popular president who garnered more votes than any other candidate in history. Over 5 million more than Obama in 2008. Trump won in an epic landslide. All that's left to do is effectuate that epic win.

Don't worry, I'll let you when Trump is sworn in for his 2nd term. :mrgreen:
That's why Hillary beat him in the Popular Vote. He only won because of the undemocratic nature of the STUPID Electoral College. The Republicans only have a chance of winning the Presidency if the Electoral College exists. Admitted to by the Chump and the Republicans in general.

He lost his 2nd Term presidency by a landslide by Biden's victory. And most likely he will go to jail with a felony conviction which will disqualify him from holding public office.

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Re: Corona Virus

Post by jim.bus » 2021-01-06 01:19

SorenR wrote:
2021-01-06 00:35
jim.bus wrote:
2021-01-05 23:02
You got that right. And the Stupid Democrats in Congress will probably want to run out the clock to 1-20-21 giving this 'CRIMINAL' more opportunity to do damage to the Nation. I have badgered my Representative to support an immediate Impeachment now even if it won't result in Removal from Office but you never know and the quicker we can get rid of him the less opportunity he'll have to do any more damage.
The Constitution’s Article I, Section 3 provides for “disqualification to hold and enjoy any office of honor, trust or profit under the United States” as a penalty for an impeachable offense. And critically, while removal from office requires a two-thirds vote of the Senate, disqualification is different.
And that is another reason why I support impeaching Chump again as it would disqualify him from ever holding any position under the US and we therefore would have that threat removed.

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Re: Corona Virus

Post by palinka » 2021-01-06 02:16

SorenR wrote:
2021-01-06 00:35

The Constitution’s Article I, Section 3 provides for “disqualification to hold and enjoy any office of honor, trust or profit under the United States” as a penalty for an impeachable offense. And critically, while removal from office requires a two-thirds vote of the Senate, disqualification is different.
You're much better at email. :mrgreen:

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Re: Corona Virus

Post by palinka » 2021-01-06 02:18

jim.bus wrote:
2021-01-06 01:19
And that is another reason why I support impeaching Chump again
¯\_(ツ)_/¯ You'll get your chance.

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Re: Corona Virus

Post by jimimaseye » 2021-01-07 00:27

Watching the U.S implode: makes you proud, doesn't it. Proud to not be American. And I say that as a European but so will Chinese, Russians, Turks and many other less tolerant countries.

Well done Trump. Ironically you've succeeded in doing the very counter opposite to what you claimed you wanted to do: there is nothing 'great' now and the rest of the world is seeing it.

Bravo.
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Re: Corona Virus

Post by jim.bus » 2021-01-07 00:57

jimimaseye wrote:
2021-01-07 00:27
Watching the U.S implode: makes you proud, doesn't it. Proud to not be American. And I say that as a European but so will Chinese, Russians, Turks and many other less tolerant countries.

Well done Trump. Ironically you've succeeded in doing the very counter opposite to what you claimed you wanted to do: there is nothing 'great' now and the rest of the world is seeing it.

Bravo.
And one of the most terrible things about it is, he did not win the popular vote. It's our stupid Electoral College which allows the minority of the Populace to elect an obviously unfit person to the presidency. The Republicans and the Chump himself have admitted they must keep the Electoral College otherwise Republicans wouldn't be elected as presidents. The Electoral College is in my opinion contrary to the concept of Democracy and I have been badgering my Congressional Representative and Senators to institute a Constitutional Amendment to abolish the Electoral College.

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Re: Corona Virus

Post by mattg » 2021-01-07 01:06

jimimaseye wrote:
2021-01-07 00:27
Watching the U.S implode: makes you proud, doesn't it. Proud to not be American. And I say that as a European but so will Chinese, Russians, Turks and many other less tolerant countries.
Perhaps one or more of these countries that you mention are pushing the social media buttons of the general populace, inciting the rioting and anarchy...

I'm not sure that this 'implosion' is a self-made 'implosion'
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Re: Corona Virus

Post by jim.bus » 2021-01-07 01:15

mattg wrote:
2021-01-07 01:06
jimimaseye wrote:
2021-01-07 00:27
Watching the U.S implode: makes you proud, doesn't it. Proud to not be American. And I say that as a European but so will Chinese, Russians, Turks and many other less tolerant countries.
Perhaps one or more of these countries that you mention are pushing the social media buttons of the general populace, inciting the rioting and anarchy...

I'm not sure that this 'implosion' is a self-made 'implosion'
It has been determined by our FBI Investigation into the 2016 Election of the Chump and our 2020 Election that the Russians had not only hacked the Campaign computer systems but also had put false Social Media information in an attempt to influence the electing of Chump to the presidency. Chump has denied it of course.

With any luck the Republican Party will be destroying itself as it seems to have already started to do so according to some news analysts I have heard.

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Re: Corona Virus

Post by jimimaseye » 2021-01-07 13:48

palinka wrote:
2020-11-10 15:18
here is no outgoing president. There is a current president awaiting re-inauguration and a fake-news-pretending-to-be pipe dream of a president. But no outgoing president. Not in 2020.
No, but there is in 2021. Or is this fake too?
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Re: Corona Virus

Post by palinka » 2021-01-07 13:52

jimimaseye wrote:
2021-01-07 13:48
palinka wrote:
2020-11-10 15:18
here is no outgoing president. There is a current president awaiting re-inauguration and a fake-news-pretending-to-be pipe dream of a president. But no outgoing president. Not in 2020.
No, but there is in 2021. Or is this fake too?
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Re: Corona Virus

Post by fjansen04 » 2021-01-07 15:17

You are going to need an awful lot of that ..... :lol:
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Re: Corona Virus

Post by SorenR » 2021-01-07 15:33

palinka wrote:
2021-01-07 13:52
jimimaseye wrote:
2021-01-07 13:48
palinka wrote:
2020-11-10 15:18
here is no outgoing president. There is a current president awaiting re-inauguration and a fake-news-pretending-to-be pipe dream of a president. But no outgoing president. Not in 2020.
No, but there is in 2021. Or is this fake too?
Patience is a virtue, grasshopper.
https://www.politico.com/news/2021/01/0 ... wer-455721

Regarding the rumours that Trump is running away to Scotland..
https://www.vanityfair.com/news/2021/01 ... n-scotland
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Re: Corona Virus

Post by jimimaseye » 2021-01-20 19:48

palinka wrote:
2021-01-07 13:52
jimimaseye wrote:
2021-01-07 13:48
palinka wrote:
2020-11-10 15:18
here is no outgoing president. There is a current president awaiting re-inauguration and a fake-news-pretending-to-be pipe dream of a president. But no outgoing president. Not in 2020.
No, but there is in 2021. Or is this fake too?
Patience is a virtue, grasshopper.
Im not waiting any more. He was the out-going, and now he has gone..

And there it is. Biden in and the other despicable embarrassment of American politics is gone. (Next stop....jail). All as expected and eagerly awaited. As a member of the rest of the world I for one can say thank god!

The Republican party permanently damaged and will be further more so when Trump takes them on with his intended new party.... assuming he survives the impeachment (ahem!) and the various lawsuits.

It just gets better.

IMG-20210120-WA0000.jpg
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Re: Corona Virus

Post by palinka » 2021-01-20 20:27

jimimaseye wrote:
2021-01-20 19:48
The Republican party permanently damaged and will be further more so when Trump takes them on with his intended new party.... assuming he survives the impeachment (ahem!) and the various lawsuits.

¯\_(ツ)_/¯ He had his chance and blew it. Now America is dead. One party rule forever. That sounds sustainable, doesn't it?

You're dead right about the lawsuits, impeachment and everything else. They will hound him until he's dead. His family too. Well, after blowing his chance, i doubt many people will lift a finger to help.

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Re: Corona Virus

Post by jim.bus » 2021-01-20 21:53

My understanding was in the beginning the Founders never intended there be a Party System and I don't believe you will find any references to a Party in the Constitution or at least the Original unAmended document.

I for one don't want to see any Party System where one Party is always trying to keep power. I, also, believe that we shouldn't have legislators which represent only their so called Constituents. Their actions affect the whole country so they should be accountable to all the Nation's Voters. In terms of what we find in Local government, they might be called Legislators at large meaning they represent all of us.

I also object, as example, to having the Speaker Of The House elected by the members of the House. That position should be accountable to the Nation's Voters so that we can contact the Speaker directly and tell them our priorities. Not the Priorities of the Party as determined by the Speaker.

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Re: Corona Virus

Post by mattg » 2021-01-21 00:41

Does your speaker of the house wield power?
Our Speaker is a token figure with little authority, and essentially a wasted vote in the house.
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Re: Corona Virus

Post by SorenR » 2021-01-21 01:28

jim.bus wrote:
2021-01-20 21:53
My understanding was in the beginning the Founders never intended there be a Party System and I don't believe you will find any references to a Party in the Constitution or at least the Original unAmended document.

I for one don't want to see any Party System where one Party is always trying to keep power. I, also, believe that we shouldn't have legislators which represent only their so called Constituents. Their actions affect the whole country so they should be accountable to all the Nation's Voters. In terms of what we find in Local government, they might be called Legislators at large meaning they represent all of us.

I also object, as example, to having the Speaker Of The House elected by the members of the House. That position should be accountable to the Nation's Voters so that we can contact the Speaker directly and tell them our priorities. Not the Priorities of the Party as determined by the Speaker.
Speaker of the house is a glorified toastmaster without any real power but to control who can speak from the floor. Why should "the people" be bothered with a trivial act of selecting that person?

We have the same function in our "folketing" = parliament and it is typically regarded a position of retreat for a noteworthy retired party leader of any colour, sex or conviction.
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Re: Corona Virus

Post by jim.bus » 2021-01-21 02:16

mattg wrote:
2021-01-21 00:41
Does your speaker of the house wield power?
Our Speaker is a token figure with little authority, and essentially a wasted vote in the house.
I can't give you specifics but Speaker Of The House does have leadership power meaning s(he) does set the Agenda and what gets voted on. Speaker Of The House is actually in line of succession to the Presidency after the Vice President so this is also another reason why I feel that these Leadership positions should be determined by the Nation's Voters and not the members of the two Houses of Congress. I can't even get the Speaker of the House to listen to my opinions on what matters to me even though both she and I are from California. She represents a District in San Francisco and not my District. But yet her decisions regarding the Agenda, presenting Articles of Impeachment to the Senate, etc. affect the whole Nation and the rest of the voters officially don't have any influence on the Speaker because the rest of the voters are not her voting Constituents.

In the Senate Mitch McConnell, the former Senate Majority Leader (Republican) controlled what was voted on for the Senate Floor because the Republicans were in power up until today. He was holding up all the bills before the Senate, held up hearings for appointment of Supreme Court Justices, etc. And as far as I can tell Majority Leader is not a real Senate position whereas Speaker of the House apparently is since that position is in Line of Succession to the Presidency. And again I couldn't have any official influence on McConnell who is affecting me with his decisions because he is the Senator from Kentucky.

This argument would also be true for the legislators from other Districts and States. Their immediate concern is for their Constituents interests but yet their voting decisions affect all the Nation. This is why I thought the concept of a legislator being considered to be 'At Large' would be a better methodology. In this scenario the legislator Constituents would be the entire Nation. The way things are now is indicative of the fact that the US is a Federation with the Federal Government being the centralized control. The States are always wanting to preserve States' Rights. It sometimes can be very crazy because it may be legal to do one thing in one State and not legal in a different State because each State has its own set of laws. Example in California, it's legal to make a right turn with a car at a Stop Light after stopping but in some States this is not legal. California has stricter vehicle emission laws and require Car Manufacturers to make cars conform to California's emission laws if the manufacturer wants to sell cars in California which adds to the price of the car compared to those states that don't have these emission laws.

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Re: Corona Virus

Post by SorenR » 2021-01-21 02:33

jim.bus wrote:
2021-01-21 02:16
mattg wrote:
2021-01-21 00:41
Does your speaker of the house wield power?
Our Speaker is a token figure with little authority, and essentially a wasted vote in the house.
I can't give you specifics but Speaker Of The House does have leadership power meaning s(he) does set the Agenda and what gets voted on. Speaker Of The House is actually in line of succession to the Presidency after the Vice President so this is also another reason why I feel that these Leadership positions should be determined by the Nation's Voters and not the members of the two Houses of Congress. I can't even get the Speaker of the House to listen to my opinions on what matters to me even though both she and I are from California. She represents a District in San Francisco and not my District. But yet her decisions regarding the Agenda, presenting Articles of Impeachment to the Senate, etc. affect the whole Nation and the rest of the voters officially don't have any influence on the Speaker because the rest of the voters are not her voting Constituents.

In the Senate Mitch McConnell, the former Senate Majority Leader (Republican) controlled what was voted on for the Senate Floor because the Republicans were in power up until today. He was holding up all the bills before the Senate, held up hearings for appointment of Supreme Court Justices, etc. And as far as I can tell Majority Leader is not a real Senate position whereas Speaker of the House apparently is since that position is in Line of Succession to the Presidency. And again I couldn't have any official influence on McConnell who is affecting me with his decisions because he is the Senator from Kentucky.

This argument would also be true for the legislators from other Districts and States. Their immediate concern is for their Constituents interests but yet their voting decisions affect all the Nation. This is why I thought the concept of a legislator being considered to be 'At Large' would be a better methodology. In this scenario the legislator Constituents would be the entire Nation. The way things are now is indicative of the fact that the US is a Federation with the Federal Government being the centralized control. The States are always wanting to preserve States' Rights. It sometimes can be very crazy because it may be legal to do one thing in one State and not legal in a different State because each State has its own set of laws. Example in California, it's legal to make a right turn with a car at a Stop Light after stopping but in some States this is not legal. California has stricter vehicle emission laws and require Car Manufacturers to make cars conform to California's emission laws if the manufacturer wants to sell cars in California which adds to the price of the car compared to those states that don't have these emission laws.
You should move to Swizerland, they delegate a lot of voting to the kantons and the Swiss...

Constitutional Democracy as I believe most democratic countries are is so for a reason. You elect a groupe of people to govern on your behalf (so YOU don't have to) and then YOU can go do something else. Stop interrupting them while they govern and allow them to get things done!
If you believe they are no good ... well ... YOU voted for them ;-)
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Re: Corona Virus

Post by mattg » 2021-01-21 03:08

SorenR wrote:
2021-01-21 02:33
Constitutional Democracy as I believe most democratic countries are is so for a reason. You elect a groupe of people to govern on your behalf (so YOU don't have to) and then YOU can go do something else. Stop interrupting them while they govern and allow them to get things done!
If you believe they are no good ... well ... YOU voted for them ;-)
And to add to that...

If you want to govern, then you should run as a candidate. Test the popularity of what you say and want to achieve.
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Re: Corona Virus

Post by SorenR » 2021-01-21 04:04

Hmm... I believe the correct term for the Danish version of Democracy is "Parliamentary Democracy" since we have a multi-party structure.

Our democracy is only about 170 years old, before then the monarch (King or Queen) ruled absolute. First known king Harthacnut (Danish: Hardeknud) dates back to the 8th century CE. His grandson Harald Bluetooth officially christianized the Danes in 965 CE.

Our national flag Dannebrog "dropped from the sky", so the legend says, some 800 years ago and was primarely used by the royal family. The current design with the "scandinavian cross" on a red field have been in continous use for the past 400 years.
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Re: Corona Virus

Post by jim.bus » 2021-01-21 07:17

SorenR wrote:
2021-01-21 02:33


Constitutional Democracy as I believe most democratic countries are is so for a reason. You elect a groupe of people to govern on your behalf (so YOU don't have to) and then YOU can go do something else. Stop interrupting them while they govern and allow them to get things done!
If you believe they are no good ... well ... YOU voted for them ;-)
The US has what is actually called a Constitutional Federal Repbulic. Federal means there is both a National Government and, in the case of the US, 50 State Governments. A “republic” is a form of government in which the people hold power, but elect representatives to exercise that power. I was not saying I wanted to govern but I wanted to elect those who represent me. In the case of the US Legislature (Congress). We have persons elected by their particular Constituents such as the Speaker of the House and the Senate Majority Leader who effects all the people of the US of which the great majority cannot vote for the people who perform these roles in the Congress. The persons filling these positions were only elected by their State or District Constituents and not all the people of the US. Plus the other Senators and members of the House of Representatives are elected by their Constituents of the States they represent and Districts within their States. Yet these Senators and Members of the House of Representatives vote on legislation which affects not only their Constituents but all the people of the US who did not vote for them and are not accountable to them. Therefore in effect they are Representing people who did not have the opportunity to vote for them.

This is what I am complaining about the system we have. Representatives (members of Congress) are representing people who did not vote for them and are not accountable to the people they in effect are representing. This is in effect a form of disenfranchisement. This is neither Democracy nor a Republican Form of government when many of the people being governed are being governed by the Representatives they did not vote for.

What I was describing as a possible way to make the governing more in line with what I believe a Republican form of government is would be where the Representative was 'At Large' meaning, all the Representatives represented the entire people of the US such that if any Representative was ignoring the needs of the areas of the Nation then the people of that part of the Nation would be able to hold that Representative accountable by voting against that Representative at election time. I can't say if this would be fool proof but is more in line with what I believe should be done.

I would also like to see a 'No Vote' option when voting for a Nominee for Office. Right now we only have the choice to vote for someone who was nominated for that Office meaning we either vote for those who are running for that Office or we don't vote at all for that Office. Meaning we can only choose from those that are actually nominated and if we don't like any of those Nominated then we can't vote indicating we don't want any of those who appear on the Ballot. When Trump was elected there were those who didn't want Trump but they didn't want the Democratic Nominee even more than they didn't want Trump and because we had no other option this probably contributed to Trump being able to get in office because those voters voted for the lesser of two evils.

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Re: Corona Virus

Post by SorenR » 2021-01-21 12:47

What is the difference in voting for "none of the above" and not voting at all when the objective is selecting the candidate with the most votes?

A wise man once said; "Life is like a box of chocolade, you never know what you gonna get".
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Re: Corona Virus

Post by mattg » 2021-01-21 23:36

Here in Australia, we have compulsory voting. We get fined if we don't vote.

We are told at school that we are the only country that has this, and that it is good because it prevents gangs / governments / rebels from stopping the population from getting to polling booths.

We turn up at a booth, get our name marked off, then get given a voting form (yes, all paper based still)
If we want to vote for no-one, the typical response is to write all over the form, either rude comments, or just a drawn 'dick and balls', before casting the vote. Equally, once we have our form we could just put it in the bin...or even actually vote properly.
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Re: Corona Virus

Post by jim.bus » 2021-01-26 03:00

I believe neither of you (mattg or sorenr) are getting the point. What I described was still voting. With the system as it currently is, the only choices for voting are the Nominees on the Ballot except for the Write In Option. But if we want none of the Nominees we have no other choice (except for doing a write in) except to abstain from voting for either of the Nominees. This still allows for the possibility (however slight) that one of the Nominees can wind the election with only a single vote (namely the Nominee voted for himself/herself). This is still voting because you turn in a Ballot and you decline to vote for any of the Nominees.

With what I was describing I wanted to see was that we could vote No on any nominee and if the majority of the people voted No for that nominee then that Nominee would not win. This would also allow for the possibility that the voters did not want any of the candidates and this is still voting as the voters voted to not elect any of the choices of Nominees. It would of course force another election to be run but it would stop the process that forces us to take the lesser of two or more evils if you catch what I mean.

I believe I used the example of our 2016 Election where Trump was the Nominee for the Republicans and Clinton was the Nominee for the Democrats. There were voters who disliked both Nominees but disliked Clinton (and even Democratic voters disliked Clinton) more than they disliked Trump so these voters voted for Trump and look at what we got.

Incidentally, if you haven't heard Trump wants to form his own 'Patriot Party' and certain Republicans are wishing he would (one of them being the ex-Chairman of the Republican Party) and these Republicans are wanting those Republican Trump supporters to go and join his 'Patriot Party'.

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SorenR
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Re: Corona Virus

Post by SorenR » 2021-01-26 04:35

If someone comes up to you and gives you a choice of a RED candy bar or a BLUE candy bar... Asking for a GREEN candy bar is not an option. If that is what you want then your concept of voting is flawed. You are given two choices and that's it - take it or leave it.

Voting is about what I want and if I like BLUE better than RED then there is nothing you can say or do. If the reason I like BLUE better than RED then perhaps RED did not present themselves well enough! There is still nothing YOU can do!

That is the problem with a two-party system. "If you are not voting for me, you are voting for my enemy!" :roll:

When we vote for parliament in Denmark we can vote personal or we can vote party - that way the party do not loose your vote if you don't like any of the candidates, your vote is then split between them all. We do not vote in the prime minister directly - the parliament does that based on which candidate the parties/coalition of parties agreed on.

Our parliament have 179 members... Currently we have 14 parties and 6 independent members.
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Re: Corona Virus

Post by mattg » 2021-01-26 04:47

SorenR wrote:
2021-01-26 04:35
Our parliament have 179 members... Currently we have 14 parties and 6 independent members.
Does stuff get done?
Or is there just constant 'minority group pandering' during negotiations to get bills passed?
Just 'cause I link to a page and say little else doesn't mean I am not being nice.
https://www.hmailserver.com/documentation

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Re: Corona Virus

Post by SorenR » 2021-01-26 04:57

mattg wrote:
2021-01-26 04:47
SorenR wrote:
2021-01-26 04:35
Our parliament have 179 members... Currently we have 14 parties and 6 independent members.
Does stuff get done?
Or is there just constant 'minority group pandering' during negotiations to get bills passed?
They do get stuff done. Currently we have a "socialist" minority goverment but they are backed by a coalition of other "left wing" parties. Right and left parties do actually work together to pass laws.

Here left wing are "RED" and right wing are "BLUE". Some more RED than others and some more BLUE than others. The majority of the parties are orientet towards the middle and this is also where decisions are made.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Politics_of_Denmark
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Re: Corona Virus

Post by Lucx » 2021-02-13 03:44

is Covid Real :D?? (Joke!^^)

I compare it to my spanish flu.

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Re: Corona Virus

Post by jim.bus » 2021-02-19 22:04

jimimaseye wrote:
2021-01-06 00:21
I interesting definition of "won".
palinka wrote:
2021-01-05 23:32
SorenR wrote:
2021-01-05 19:57
So what... Republicans lost!
No. Republicans won across the board because they rode the coattails of a very popular president who garnered more votes than any other candidate in history...
.... except Joe Biden who got over 7 million more.

Just saying.
And Hillary Clinton won the popular vote by I believe 3 million votes. It's the Republicans who can't count who think 3 million and 7 million more votes is a loss in the popular vote. The Republicans don't know simple math. The Republicans are the ones who think the minority of the population should control the government and therefore government should not be a Democracy. One of these days we are going to get rid of that asinine Electoral College which in no sense of the word is a tool for electing a President in a Democracy. The Republicans know they cannot win elections in a Democratic manner and must resort to making laws in Republican controlled states which tend to suppress voting because the more people who vote the more likely the Republicans will lose their elections.

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